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Author Topic: The never ending story  (Read 2343 times)

o.g.darkdrifter

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2010, 03:58:40 PM »

Haven't touched this thing in a while. Figured I'd do.... something.

 Sold the FC, now I have this



Put this



In the Z



Now the Z is doing a lot of this because one of the suspension arms got bent



Then I made some of this



And ate it.

Got a set of spares that just so happen to be 18's, two of them have decent tires. Now I just have to buy some new traction arms to replace the one that got bent, and buy a set of tires, and I just MIGHT be able to drive at an event this year. Knowing my luck it won't be until October or something stupid like that though.

 Now I'm probably going to go to sleep or something......
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o.g.darkdrifter

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2011, 04:18:10 AM »

Thought I was going to Korea... for 8 months..... the military told me no two weeks before I was supposed to go..... got rid of my truck. So instead of being pouty faced I decided to attend more events.... starting with Houston.
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o.g.darkdrifter

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2011, 04:18:56 AM »

Also did this.

Notes before reading this.

See these references and read them thoroughly before attempting this:

http://my350z.com/forum/drift/399634-drifting-101-a-guide-insight-to-drifting-the-z.html

http://my350z.com/forum/brakes-and-suspension/504240-dual-rear-calipers-ebrake.html

http://my350z.com/forum/brakes-and-suspension/504660-hydraulic-handbrake-install.html

http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/page.php?4

Keep in mind that there are a few ways to install a hydraulic ebrake, this is simply the method I chose. This method is not necessarily the best, but I felt it was the best for me. The method you choose should only be done after thorough research done by yourself on the benefits and disadvantages of each setup.

CAUTION: This modification requires tampering with the factory brake lines and design. If you do not feel you are mechanically inclined enough to perform something like this, then don't. Take it to a reputable shop that can do it for you. Any incorrect step can result in dangerous results that can pontentially damage your car, or worse, put you in danger.

CAUTION: Make sure to adhere to the FSM's specifications for brake fluid and follow it's directions for bleeding your brakes.

CAUTION: This disables ABS

NOTE: These are not specific instructions on how to do this modification, I am simply showing how I went about it. How you go about this modification is solely up to you and you take all risk in attempting it.

So I finally got my Powered by Max SLC hydraulic ebrake in. The OEM parking brake on the Z33 is just that.... for parking. It won't lock the rear wheels at all while moving, it will only slow them down at best, even when pressing in the clutch and turning the steering wheel. I replaced the stock brake shoes with P.Mu "drift" brake shoes a couple of years ago but they only lasted for one event and then just reverted to something exactly like stock. Years later I want to improve my driving with more techniques but without an ebrake that can lock the rear wheels I felt extremly limited. That's where this thing comes in.



I started out with the hydro. It didn't come with any instructions or anything helpful for installation. But fortunately I had been pestering my friend Kim (Ktran), who also has a Z with a ksport hydro ebrake (now upgraded to a Wilwood cylinder), about information pertaining to installing this thing. After scouring forums and studying the FSM I had a pretty good idea on how to go about this.

The first step was to have two lines made. One line comes from the secondary port of the master cylinder to the inlet of the hydro cylinder (the port on the end), the other goes from the outlet of the hydro (the port closest to the frame) to the secondary port of the abs block. These two lines replace the factory hard line that goes from the secondary outlet of the master cylinder to the secondary port of the abs block, tying in the hydraulic ebrake to the braking system (hence the hydro being an "in-line" setup).

First you have to get an idea of how long you need the lines. I just used some string and zipties and threaded them from where I wanted to mount the hydro in the car to where the lines need to go in the engine bay. Then you have to get your lines made to length and have the right size fittings fitted to the lines. Luckily there is an amazing shop in town that specializes in things like this, I had both lines made in a few minutes (after a little begging and pleading that I needed the lines done in a day lol). I had them remove the stock fittings from the secondary hardline I removed to use for the lines going back to the master and abs block, they used all new fittings for the ports in the hydro cylinder. The lines were about $80, which isn't bad considering other people pay from $120-$160 for their lines.

After installing the lines into your hydro it would be in your best interest to bench bleed the hydraulic cylinder. It saves a huge amount of time and effort. All I did was pour brake fluid into a crappy pot and actuate the hydro. Pretty simple process, just pump until you don't see any more bubbles. Make sure that the lines and pot are higher than the hydro cylinder so the air can actually escape, you also want to make sure that both lines stay submerged in brake fluid.



The next step was to actually install the lines and remove the factory hardline. Easy enough, just have to make sure you don't mix up the lines, again zipties came to the rescue lol. I just put a ziptie on the line going into the inlet side of the hydro that goes to the master cylinder to identify it after threading it through the car.

I decided not to drill anything and just use whatever factory holes were in the chassis. I also wanted to keep my stock parking brake for parking duties. So I decided to modify the shifter hole and route my lines through there.


Down through the tranny tunnel.



Past the transmission.


Over the front subframe.


Up through a hole in the driver side fender well that goes into the brake sides secondary firewall.


Line that goes from the master to the hydro.


Line that goes from the hydro to the secondary port of the abs block.


(Both lines were secured away from moving parts and high heat areas with hose guides and angle iron and wrapped in chaffe wrap or rubber coolant hose near high vibration/tight clearance areas)

Next step is to swap the lines at the abs block. This step is the most complicated part and easiest to mess up but is actually annoyingly simple. On my base model all of the lines are marked on the abs block (FL, RR, RL, FR). The primary and secondary lines coming from the master cylinder to the abs block control these lines in an X pattern. Meaning the primary controls the FL and RR and the secondary controls the FR and RL brakes. In order to have the hydro ebrake lock the rear brakes you have to change this setup. So now you want to swap the hardlines at the abs block so that the secondary controls the two rear brakes and the primary controls the two front brakes. Of course in doing this you are also disabling your ABS (you need to unplug it or you will have some major problems).

(DO NOT!!! I REPEAT!! DO NOT SWAP THE LINES THAT ARE REMOVED IN THIS PICTURE!!! YOU WANT TO SWAP THE LINES THAT ARE STILL INSTALLED IN THIS PICTURE, THE RR AND FR!! YOU ARE WARNED.)




After this your brakes need to be bled of course, and of course you still need to follow the FSM. Make sure to check for leaks at all of the brake lines you removed and reinstalled including the ones in the hydraulic ebrake.

Before you actually install the hydro into the car it would be in your best interest to double check to make sure you got your lines correct. If you remember my caution from earlier, this is why. I'm not too big headed to admit that I made a mistake, I just so happened to get confused about swapping lines on the abs block. I swapped the lines so that the secondary controlled the front brakes instead of the rear. This means that when the hydro is pulled the front brakes lock, AKA catastrophe if done while trying to initiate. We checked this while the car was still in the air on a hunch and happened to catch this issue before it was too late. Spin the front wheels (one at a time, or two at a time if you have enough people to check both at the same time and another to pull the lever), if the lines were swapped improperly one (or both) the front wheels will abruptly stop spinning. Don't be overly cocky about your work and check this regardless of how much you know, it only takes a second.

After bleeding your brakes, checking for leaks, and precautionary checks of the hydro the next step is to actually install the hydro.

There are a lot of options about where you want this installed, all depends on your preference and what you want to compromise. This is the spot I chose to have my hydro installed.



Mock up how you want the hydro positioned, check clearance and all that jazz.




I decided to have mine welded in (they can also be bolted in, there are holes in the bottom of the hydro's frame for bolts, but the reinforcement plate that's provided, or of some kind, should be used for ridgidity and added strength), so I invited a friend with a welder over =).




The clearances in here are pretty crazy, we used a dremel and tin snips for most of it. Had to cut a slit in the shifter boot and snip a portion of the shifter boot frame out in order to clear the brake lines. There's a tad bit more noise from the undercarriage, but it's not even noticeable to anyone but me so I guess that's good. Not sure about how well it seals tire smoke, I'll provide that info after the event this weekend.

(the welds were cleaned up and the area was wiped down and painted so the final product under the panels looks much better than this lol)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 04:22:41 AM by o.g.darkdrifter »
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o.g.darkdrifter

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2011, 04:21:35 AM »

Now for the finished product.........










All in all it was definitely worth all of the work and it came out looking pretty clean imo. Took us a total of about 9hrs of work, it actually took about two days but that included running around getting supplies and such.

The rear end locks up so easily with this setup, nothing like the stock parking brake (going from using the brake shoes to using the pads), hardly takes any effort, and it will actually lock the wheels hard enough to make smoke (I know that's a trivial thing to people who have ebrakes that will lock the rear lol). I've been drifting my Z since I got it and have pretty much been without an ebrake for the entire time, now that I have one that works as well as this does it's taking me a little bit to get used to it. I recommend this to anyone who wants to drift and has a 350Z or any similar car that has an ebrake that can't really lock the rear by design (I hear Z32's have the same issue). The improved access is pretty nice as well, no adjusting in your seat needed to fully pull the brake or anything like a stock ebrake requires. Really nice if you have a bucket seat. Other than that I don't really see any reason for someone with a conventional ebrake that uses pads to do this mod, but a lot of s-chassis people do it anyway so I'm sure they all have their reasons.

 Because this setup is in-line the foot pedal and hand brake do kind of work against eachother but it's nothing that you can't get used to. It's definitely not a reason to avoid this setup imo.

If you have any problems or are concerned or confused about anything please let me know and I'll help to the best of my ability. I hope this helps anyone looking into hydro ebrakes.


Sorry about the formalities, this was a writeup I did on a Z forum....
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RotaDrifta69

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2011, 08:49:23 AM »

Wow. Time and money well spent! Looks awesome.
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RurouniMidnight

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2011, 11:23:59 AM »

This is the cleanest looking hydro ebrake install on a Z ive ever seen wow!, really like the pbm design. I feel you on how shitty the standard ebrake works mines the same way it doesn't do anything when you pull it haha. I wanna check this thing out in person, mad props.

o.g.darkdrifter

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2011, 12:18:56 PM »

Thanks for the compliments.

I actually did a comparison of the hydro and the standard ebrake for a friend that drifts his S14. Dumped the clutch, barely pulled the hydro, and the wheels locked. Dumped the clutch, pulled the standard hand brake with a ridiculous amount of effort, and my friend started laughing.

I've been doing little stuff around town just to test it out and see if it works but the real test will be this Sunday in Houston. Rorouni you're more than welcome to check it out there. I hope Aaron does a cool course that needs a decent amount of ebrake lol.
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o.g.darkdrifter

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2011, 01:50:02 PM »

That is a concern, and the lines will be replaced with steel braided lines at some point. To help slow down the wear of the lines I routed them away from all moving and high heat areas. I also used chaffe wrap where the lines would be touching anything (including areas where they are close to eachother without a lot of room for movement due to vibration and cornering etc.) and a rubber coolant hose where the lines go through the shifter hole. I also have hose guides lifting the lines off of anything they happen to be laying on top of in the pictures I posted. Some time this week I plan to get some heat shielding and wrap the lines in it. The lines are actually further away from the exhaust than the rubber clutch line running under the car. I also did lose a little bit of brake pedal resistance but I figured that was simply due to the 16ft of line added to the system.

Other than that what issues will this setup cause? I know hardlines are preffered simply because they are much more ridgid and provide less compliance than rubber ones. But there shouldn't be any issues with the lines blowing or anything like that right? They were pressure tested to 3000psi at the shop that put them together. So the only issues are chaffing and heat right?
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Tran

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2011, 04:11:15 PM »

after the install, does food taste better coming from that pot? ramen?


oh yea, welcome to the hydro club :)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 05:54:28 PM by Tran »
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Alex33

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2011, 10:48:26 PM »

good install mang

saw the z at autocross the other day, looking clean as usual.
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o.g.darkdrifter

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2011, 06:38:21 AM »

I appreciate the suggestions/criticism. That e-clip w/pin setup would be a hell of a lot cleaner than the allen head bolt w/ nut . The allen head bolt setup is what PBM provided. It works, but with the way I have the frame positioned it does rub on the panel when installing and removing it. I'll get the OD measurement for the bolt and see about switching it with an equivilant pin.
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Derrick

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2011, 07:01:33 AM »

On the rubber brake hose. . .  Statistically, properly crimped rubber lines are much more durable than braided stainless and have much, much lower failure rates.  It's no coincidence that nearly every production car on the planet uses rubber for brake lines, and it has little to do with cost.  The reason why one may want braided lines in their performance car is strictly to reduce deflection and produce a firmer pedal.

Braided line may look tougher than rubber, but the reality is braided stainless line is more easily damaged to the point of failure.  The braiding supports the teflon lining underneath and it is not properly an "armor" of any kind. If the braiding is damaged in any way, the structure of the braid is compromised and the lining is left unsupported and can rupture.  By contrast, the outer lining of rubber hose is a thick rubber armor that protects a woven fiber braiding, which supports the inner channel.

In short - nothing wrong with rubber brake hose, but the ebrake may not be as firm as it could be with hard lines the whole way or stainless braided...
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o.g.darkdrifter

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2011, 06:28:02 PM »















http://youtu.be/lU-oS5aNbIg

Last event in the Z. Had to sell it in order to buy my 06 Cummins 3500 and support this....












The thing broke after two weeks of owning it. Threw a code 13 and started idling/running like complete ass. Replaced cps sensors, had capacitors in stock ecu replaced, checked and double checked wiring, no luck. It does have an AEM FI/c however. Thinking this may be the culprit so I'm just going to eliminate that all together and go standalone. Not sure which one to go with as of yet (if anyone has insight lmk), want to know who's going to tune it first.

Going to need some tuning, wiring work, and my diff welded as well. Kind of a toss up between SSA and Powerfab so any suggestions for that would be nice as well.
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aaronlosey

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2011, 11:12:09 PM »

You got rid of the super reliable Z?!?  : (
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o.g.darkdrifter

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Re: The never ending story
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2011, 11:59:05 PM »

It was starting to get not so reliable actually. Think it just wasn't having a good time with all the beatings it was getting. And with the SC broken, if anything had happened to the Z I'd be out of a daily. Can't have that. Getting another "project" was a really bad idea (of course it was) and I couldn't sell the SC for much in the state it's in. Made the responsible decision.
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